Advice: Pseudoscience and pyramid scams being promoted

[NickD]

Thanks all, there are some useful ideas and suggestions here. Badspyro, I think that’s a very good outline to work from.

@Stuart

I’m unsure from the original post whether the Directors/Committee/Board/Whatever from the local space were OK with the pitch. It seems that there’s two clear options here

I get the impression it’s mostly (2) - the UK hackspace “Code of conduct” was linked with a “Back down and respect other’s views” implication. I don’t know if this is just that they can’t tell the difference, there is some politics that I’m unaware of, or some other reason. This linking was why I started this thread - the UK hackspace site had no resources on what to do in these sort of situations, and the code of conduct certainly didn’t cover them. I thought it might be useful to have been discussed if and when it ever happens to somebody else.

As for the presentation, I won’t link any directly but if you are curious googling “Kangen water presentation/demonstration” brings up many results, with many of the same slides (I assume it’s a marketing pack the company provides and encourages sellers to remix) and several of the same water/acidity presentations (lemonade is slightly acidic - surprise surprise). Interestingly, many of these have an extra section outlining the explicit marketing model at the end, and how you can become a part of it! (the diagrams look awfully like… a pyramid…)

@stanto

TEDx Salford have had similar problems where they’ve tried to keep talks and presentations within the TED standards, which are typically that they have to be factual, scientific, and religion and snake oil are kept out of it, but the presenters still change it on the day because they know they’re reaching the audience that they can manipulate/want to talk at.

This is interesting to hear - has the effort to combat this been documented anywhere?

@jonty

My general view if you’re using the space for commercial purposes (which pitching a product absolutely is), you must pay for the use of the space.

I feel this is slightly hazy and hard to pin down in exact rules, because I’d personally be fine with commercial presentations in many circumstances. Think of e.g. an oscilloscope/test tool manufacturer demonstrating the latest and greatest expensive technology - you get to see/try the latest thing, and they are betting that you’ll choose their product down the line somewhere.

But I guess the main difference is consent, when you are fully aware of what is being advertised to you, why, and are equipped to deal with it.

@badspyro

The other important part about this being an open meeting is a simple one -not everyone is going to be technically, scientifically, or otherwise experienced and literate enough to avoid scams like these, and I’d argue as a STEAM community we have a duty of care to question, interrogate, and even expel ideas, products, and scams such as this from spaces like hackspaces. This isn’t a quelling of free speech, this is an issue of potential harm, fraud, and abuse of members. Especially considering that there are potentially vulnerable members in hackspaces.

I feel a good comparison is the responsibility of hackspaces to advocate good safety practices when using potentially dangerous equipment/exposed high voltage. Nobody questions basic power tool safety, as just a matter of opinion (I hope!?).